I was so relieved a mistrial was declared. God bless the holdout - I presume it was a he and I presume he refused to find her NGBROI. I have read that her husband called to ask about a prescription after she'd murdered Dawson but before she murdered the other two - and that she answered the phone, and calmly answered his question - then went to finish the job. If that ability to fake it doesn't show planning and follow-through as opposed to mindless blackout, I don't know what would. Why didn't she tell her husband "come home right now before I murder our two surviving babies?" Because she wanted to FINISH THE JOB. God bless that hold out juror.
And only one person on that jury had the moral clarity and courage to stand up for what's right. Hero. But his identity will be learned and the libs will hound him. Just watch.
I mean we should wait to make sure it wasn't a crazy woman (you KNOW it would be a woman - I say that as a woman) who refused to convict - but if they set up a Go Fund Me or something similar so he could enjoy a nice long vacation, I'd contribute for sure. I'll never be able to buy him a drink and, again, assuming he was the holdout who refused to let her get away with it - I would like to do something in appreciation. Kind of the anti-million-dollar-fund-for-the-murderess.
Oh my gosh are you all seeing the female foreperson tried to bully him into changing his position by telling him "you'll never get laid in this town again!"? LOL. We ALL know without seeing a photo of her that she's a behemoth and we also know the "good uns" will be lining up to date this lion.
It’s insane that only one person on the jury could see through the satanic circus. But with millions and millions of babies killed every year by my body my choice it’s not at all far fetched.
You know it just shows we should always step up whether anybody else does or not. I'll never forget driving to Vegas one time and there was a car by the side of the road with the hood up and smoke coming out and a very distressed family standing beside the side of the road so of course I called 911 and the dispatcher said "thank you for calling - first one we've gotten" AND TRAFFIC WAS BUMPER TO BUMPER. What kind of monster DOESN'T call when there's smoke?
I had a similar experience driving from Vegas to LA: Traffic started jamming up, eventually revealing that the source was an old man walking on the side of the road with his small dog and what looked like a newspaper in a plastic cover. It was about 15-mintues before dark. The desert was empty miles up to that point, so I thought he was headed somewhere right up the road. But a couple of miles later: nothing, just desert. I called 911. He must have had altzheimers, went out of his home, and had been walking for probably hours. Dispatch called back, unable to locate him and then the police finally spotted him. I mentioned at some point that other people calling could help locate him. She said I was the only one who called.
A long line of cars had slowed to wonder why an old man and his dog were in the middle of nowhere, in the desert, and right befire dark, but not ONE of them called.
America has changed dramatically. And for the worse. Shame on everyone who gawked, wondered, and then drove on.
Oh my God. Bless you, sister. I am so glad you called. The few the proud I guess. As long as there's at least one of us around to keep an eye on the vulnerable.
I too called once when I saw a woman walking along the side of the freeway - which in a quarter to a half a mile would become an exit lane - with a very difficult ability to navigate. It was in the heat of the day and a completely unsafe place for a person to be. I called the police to let them know and they spent a great deal of time trying to zero in on her location, which indicated to me they had not received any prior calls about it. :(
I'll bet you a nickel it wasn't 11 to 1 initially. I'll bet at least a few were "convinced" to change their minds "to be merciful and wrap things up." OOOPS. Should I knot have used that metaphor? Shame on anyone who changed his/her initial vote (because the other two guys were ready to let her walk) having initially concluded she knew exactly what she was doing. And doing. And doing once again.
Just like OJ, Just like we can’t evict folks sell drugs and sex from our rental properties right beside the elementary school, just like picking lunatic liberal woman as jurors. No, I completely lost. Please explain?????
I don't feel sorry for her. I don't buy the postpartum excuse either. The clinic for postpartum she went to said that wasn't her problem - that her problem was "overmedication" and get off the damn drugs.
I don't feel sorry for her, I feel for the loss of the kids. And I don't want more kids to die, which they will if people don't pay attention to the fact that these psychoactive drugs cause these issues. There have been reports of women on these drugs "waking up" in a closet with a kitchen knife aimed at their kids heart for 20+ years. Those anecdotal reports are what pointed me to looking at them for the mass shooters. Now it's well documented that 65% of the mass shooters we've had can be shown to be on one of these drugs... the other 35% were not "not on them", they just are "unknown/not proven" to have been on them. But I bet most were. The shooting era started with one of the first patients on valium talking about hearing voices compelling him to climb to the top of the bell tower at UT and shoot people - just like Lindsay and so many others on these drugs have heard those voices. The shooting era amped up with greater prescriptions of these drugs in the USA. After that, the drugs all started to get warning labels for the number of reports of rare suicidal and homicidal ideation side effects. The shootings expanded to Europe along with SSRI prescriptions growing there, on a delay from the USA. At this point both Canada, the EU, and the Commonwealth countries as a whole are on a par with mass shooting fatality rates with the US. All of them have extensive SSRI and similar prescribing now.
The point is if we don't solve this, more kids will keep dying. I'm not saying don't use the drugs - they are probably quite a net benefit. I am saying recognize the risks - and damn well don't let nurse practicioners switch new mom's prescriptions back and forth three times over the phone while never seeing them in person. Jayzus.
Drugs Clancy was switched on and off of in the final two months before the killings, along with their FDA warnings (which evolved over time, the early ones didn't have them until low-frequency signals emerged from population level use not clinical trials):
Thank you, Sasha, you eloquently described all the things that I was feeling. The defense attorney was despicable on how he was attacking this who was standing firm on his conviction. I am glad Massachusetts Supreme Court denied the stay so the judge could then call him his trial. The prosecution needs to do a better job of presenting all the information that can convict her.
I agree - and they need to do a better job picking jurors who are smart enough to understand the law and apply it to the facts - and next time, sequester them. Sounds like her shyster hopes to convince the state not to pursue a new trial.
Yes, I agree with you and I was surprised that this trial the jury was not sequestered. I don’t think that the juror himself was not complying to the law. I think what he was saying is yes I know that there can be a room of doubt, but I don’t agree with reasonable doubt, I’m standing firm.
Saw an interview with the jury foreperson. She said she had been looking forward to giving her a not guilty verdict. Someone lied under oath about whether she could be objective.
It is odd how none of you address the 13 different medications she was on from 30 different prescriptions, that Patrick joined a medical malpractice suit against the providers, and her entire family supported her and even Patrick said his marriage was great and he forgave her.
That's an odd thing to do for someone who just randomly decided to be mean to her kids one day after a law-abiding life, during which she repeatedly asked for help.
Just a reminder, Lindsey wasn’t just mean to her children, she methodically killed them. They will never have another breath of life. The medical profession may have let her down with the medication‘s. Whether or not she was on all those at the same time is unclear but that isn’t an excuse to let her off for what she did to her children.
If they caused her a lack of criminal responsibility, under Massachusetts law that's exactly what that does. It means she's not criminally liable.
It appears a lot of people here have been whipped up by a social media frenzy, and you're getting carried away because you think people are saying what she did was defensible or not wrong.
Those aren't the questions here. It's a tragedy what happened, but nobody disputed she killed her kids. The question is criminal responsibility. Getting angry and throwing laws out the window won't work here.
The medical profession may have let her down? It wasn't just that--it is the reason for what she did. That's precisely the reason--not excuse. Those medications are unbelievably strong, and that's what her defense generally proved. The one juror who didn't join the other 11 just didn't follow instructions because under the law she should be found not guilty.
I can understand her having postpartum depression, and being on various medication’s at different times but those children were murdered so methodically. Also, as a nurse, she knew exactly what she would need to do if she really wanted to commit suicide. She wouldn’t have needed to google where the carotid artery is. Her Attorney is being so despicable to the one juror who was a hold out because he didn’t vote his way. I pray that the judge cause this attorney out and he definitely should have some level of sanction the way he is attacking a juror.
The prosecution did a fairly good job of revealing that Lindsey was not taking most of the medication she was prescribed during the husband’s testimony. Various medical providers kept trying different medications because “nothing was working.” It’s not unusual for people to not want to take something, but this woman was really in trouble and a full trial of medication could have made the difference.
Because no one has sympathy for them or excuses their crimes. Men who kill their families are convicted and go to prison. No gaggle of supportive men protest outside the courtroom in support of the murderer.
You aren't even paying attention to the protesters. They aren't claiming what she did was great or even excusable. They are protesting for better support for mothers like her from the medical system, which even Patrick Clancy supports.
You've invented a straw man in your head and you're arguing against that.
If committing these murders is what makes someone unstable, then men should be declared unstable and removed from power as a sex class. Because that's what they've demonstrated.
Yes. To the juror who refused to settle. You should be proud of yourself. You didn’t let the pressure get to you. Thank you for holding your own. She’s guilty. It’s a sad situation; but she knew right from wrong! 😢🙏🏻
Every shooter who did the shootings on the same drugs wasn't blacked out. Why would she be?
You can punish her, I don't care. But you'll save a lot more kids by reckoning with the drugs and with letting nurse practitioners prescribe them after a phone call with the person.
Have you never known a person on SSRIs or similar who attempted suicide? They don't describe ever wanting to at other times in their lives. They don't describe blacking out. They describe lucid thoughts with something overriding them telling them they have to do this, that they experienced during a time of changing dose or going on a new drug.
Who was Lindsay's "buddy"? These drugs are often used on the buddy system because they are only safe with someone in your personal life tasked with monitoring your thinking when you're changing dose or switching drugs.
The law dictates that under Massachusetts law she lacks criminal responsibility.
At the next trial, that will most likely be the result because that what the law dictates.
She didn't tell her husband because she was listening to the voices in her head, because she was mentally ill, largely due to the multiple types of medications she was on.
And you think her family would just stay quiet after three children were murdered because of the civil case, which Patrick joined, just for that reason? Not because they truly loved Lindsay and knew she struggled with her mental problems? Is that why they showed up every single day to support her as well?
And I wonder why this article doesn't mention she was prescribed 13 different types of medication...
How tf does that negate the lack of criminal responsibility? You think when someone has been affected that deeply by medication they can't do anything, walk, or talk, or answer phones?
You keep posting the exact same comment and point over and over. It's your OPINION that he wouldn't follow the instructions. Until we know more facts about what went on in the jury room from him or other jurors, that's biased speculation. You say "the law dictates," but the prosecution presented credible evidence that she knew what she was doing. You just happen to disregard that evidence.
And many of us think the claim of "voices in her head" is utter bullshit. It is impossible to disprove that someone had "voices" in their head, which puts the prosecution in an impossible position.
You know what, Kat. I've got a voice in my head too. A very loud voice. And this is what it says: Lindsay Clancy is guilty as fuck.
I believe that the jury is supposed to be protected. None of what Reddington exposed in the court was ever to be exposed. I don’t know why the judge didn’t call him out on that.
As much as she angers me, and her lawyer disgusts me, what worries me the most is the hoards of pink hatted women who feel Lindsay Clancy is innocent ... just because. Just because she's a woman who was stressed. Just because society doesn't do enough to support women in every single aspect of their lives. Just because it's the pharmacists fault, or the doctors fault, or society's fault.
Too many women in this country have become mentally damaged, and frankly insane. There is no reasoning with these people. Their entire life is driven by non-stop grievance, and they are owed (in their warped minds) our sympathy, our empathy and most of all our bended-knee subservience to all that they do and all that they believe.
I'm not sure how long our society can survive with a population (30%? 40%? More%?) of women who believe society owes them everything they want and demand.
I agree and I’m appalled at how many videos they’re showing on TikTok of mom’s holding their babies and splashing water on them and making them cry and thinking that’s OK. If they’re willing to openly do that what else would they do that child. They’re sick women
Or the videos of mothers cracking eggs on their children’s foreheads to see their reactions Or the videos of mothers pretending to harm their babies by using dolls, like throwing them in the dryer, etc. None of this is funny, not one damn bit!
Well she can't be innocent because she carried out the murders and didn't deny this. She can only be found innocent through a finding of insanity at the time of the act. But of course, one could argue, that anybody who commits a murder is insane.
The AWFULs' Pink Army wants to acquit Lindsay Clancy because each and every woman secretly longs to strangle other women's children who are better bred,, smarter, and more adorable than their own broods. It's a primal urge.
As a boomer who became a feminist when that was a thing in the 70's, I'm totally disgusted and saddened by how feminist behavior has gotten so warped. Because you want an equal chance to succeed, it doesn't mean you don't have any responsibility or accountability, like a woman who kills her children. Somehow, we must change this lunacy in our culture and focus on equality and not equity.
THANK YOU for saying this! I am so sick of reading about the "holdout!" You mean the one person who refuses to be sucked in by the groupthink? I've written about this whole circus several times this week (specifically the fangirls, or "clancies" as I call them), and the hypocrisy is staggering. In 2001, John Battaglia murdered his two daughters and plead insanity. He was convicted and executed. As you said, ANYONE who kills their child is insane. (My column today was "where's the GUILTY by reason of insanity" angle. How does I DID THE THING + I'M CRAZY = NOT GUILTY?!?!?!) Anyhow, thanks for this. :)
Also, the news clip sasha included in this piece stated that the jurors were upset because the holdout didn't abide by the reasonable doubt threshold. WhereTH does reasonable doubt apply when someone pled guilty!?
We will probably find out after the trial that the guy who refused to yield to the groupthink was pressured/bullied and probably lied about by the jury foreperson. The foreperson said that the “holdout” had doubt, but reading between the lines, you can tell whatever doubt he had did not rise to “reasonable doubt”. I can’t wait for that one brave juror to come out and tell us how wacko the other 11 were.
I'm glad to see the support that the holdout has received - refusing to be sucked in by groupthink is a great way to put it. He stood up on principle rather than follow the exactitudes of the law.
But I've also seen people hate on the other jurors, which I think isn't good either. Because they were just trying to follow the law, and generally that's a good thing!
All the jurors were put in a difficult position because Massachusetts law PUT them in a difficult position. It's written in a way that basically guarantees people won't be satisfied - won't be able to deliver justice - for cases like these.
It's such a mess that you can even see the subtle mistake in Sasha's post, when she writes:
>> To be found “not criminally responsible,” Lindsay Clancy would have to show that she was not of sound mind at the time of the murders.
Technically not true! She just needed to show that there was a plausible chance of being not of sound mind. Which is a big difference. All thanks to MA law (not how many other states work!).
These wacko “pink ladies” are the same people who marry death row inmates and think it’s OK to abort a million babies a year. Hell ain’t hot enough for them.
Open War is on already,,,the normal people haven't admitted it yet. This is a moment, not a Pearl Harbor but definitely big..These women are cheering the massacre of a family by their own mother...Sick, Sick, Sick
In Communist countries this is normal....Upside down is right side up, North is south
I would have been the hold out! And what a lame way to kill yourself! She planned all of this with a clear mind. Sociopath scum. She will make lots of like minded friends in prison
What stuns me (in a bad way) is that people are willing to make the jump from NGBROI to “She’s a hero.” You would think the enormity of the act — triple homicide at a minimum — would at least forestall the possibility of holding this woman up for worship. But we live in depraved times.
The left is now ready for mass murder and they smell blood in the water, all the communist countries are ready to pounce. Look at the world,,,, Canada is ,,,,dead- England dead -Europe on life support. The lefties here,, they think we the real Americans won't fight or that we will lose, so its all out war now.
If you think about it they have turned all these murders into social justice the pink ladies outside the courthouse don't even come close to admitting murder, that's their tell like in Poker, they want murder lots of it. They are not hiding there hate any longer just twisting it to hide it...Hero Luigi? Victim Lindsay? No both these people committed murder, they loved it just won't say it they lie and mask it with healthcare and bad doctors blah blah.h
So what is our move? To move these people out or fight them once n for all,,for them they want it listen to Hasan Piker and his followers,,the new candidate in Michigan,,everyday on the view,.. the late night talk shows,,read their papers,,,,, watch CNN,,,, MS Now..they want to be the small gang at the end of it all holding the treasure and take the whole country. They want all of us dead. The world is watching
Didn't know that you watched the whole trial. That makes this post very credible. This is, in fact, the issue, " The question is whether she knew what she was doing was wrong and whether she could have stopped herself, and the answer to both is an unequivocal yes."
The real problem here is that 11 MA jurors - who saw and heard the same evidence as you - and then thought the defendant didn't know right from wrong.
What appears to have happened in liberal MA is a form of jury nullification. That is to say, eleven jurors ignored the overwhelming facts and the law because they had empathy for this woman and are essentially okay with her murdering her children in cold blood. And cold blood it was. Planned and deliberately concluded.
A result like this would never happen in NE, but it could happen in MN. We saw a MN jury convict a cop because a drug user had a bad reaction to his recent drug use.
The identity of a defendant and the victim turns out to be real important and decisive in some states.
The liberal / conservative divide in this country is real and very serious. Trump is just one manifestation of it. This case is another.
Kevin Reddington might think that the mistrial ends this stage of the Lindsay Clancy saga, but this comments disparaging the holdout juror outside of the courthouse after the mistrial might very well mean that the Court is not finished with him. Reddington's comments are likely sanctionable by the Court and seem intent upon intimidating the next jury on the retrial. Reddington could have disagreed with the holdout juror without ridiculing him and potentially exposing the holdout juror to threats from the crazy women and other nutjobs, if Reddington had felt it necessary to say something - which was entirety unnecessary and recalled for!
He's extolling her virtues ("a fantastic, wonderful individual, so brave...it's not right what she had to go through because she grieves the loss of those 3 children"). He will be praising her repeatedly in interviews in the weeks ahead. He has to get that embedded in the minds of the potential jurors before the retrial.
I think our justice/jury system is teetering over an abyss. I watched Lindsay's lawyer claim that he won the case and that everyone seeking justice had been denied their rightful outcome by one juror. Think about it, OJ's jury giving the black power salute in the jury box. The courtroom hearing the case of Derek Chauvin while rocking with the chants of the bloodthirsty crowd outside howling for "their" justice. The crazed activists maneuvering for any chance to bring down Kyle Rittenhouse with a Kangaroo court. What juror wants to be that one juror holding the line against what they see as a rush to judgement? I was jury foreman in a criminal case where a fellow juror opined when starting deliberations that the defendant wouldn't have been charged if he weren't guilty! WTF! We are on the verge of using "vibes" to make all our weighty social determinations and I for one don't want to be around for that society. The Purge might be our new societal playbook. Damn!
We have been down this "diminished capacity" excuse for murder before. Just look up, Dan White, Harvey Milk, and George Moscone and you will see what I mean. As, soon as some lefty politician or icon gets killed and the murderer gets let off for diminished capacity of some sort, the legislature will close that loophole in a nano second.
I've never liked the "insanity" defense. If a person dies at the hands of another, it is either 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree murder, or death by some degree of negligence if there is no acquittal by self-defense or a charge of unintentional death by negligence is successfully defended. That's enough verdicts. There does not need to a separate one for presumed insanity.
You can be criminally charged and sent to prison for shooting a trespassing dog on your property. No insanity plea for killing a dog, so why should you get one for killing your babies?
I agree, its too much mystery magic and feelings,,,and the victim can never get fromtheir box and exclaim he's lying he said he waskilling me while he put the knife in.
There is never any morals anymore or personal responsibility
Thank you for bringing up the fact that there is no personal responsibility in society. 💯! How was this woman brought up? Also, when was the last time she or her husband stepped foot in a church? Just sayin!
Especially the temporary insanity defense. This was invented by Congresscritter Dan Sickles to gain acquittal for murdering the son of Francis Scott Key (who was his wife's lover). He went on to disobey orders as a Corps commander at Gettysburg and get thousands killed and nearly lost the Civil War. Edwin Stanton, Secretary of War during most of the Lincoln administration was his defense lawyer.
I remember that story. Another one is that Stanton had a client on trial for murder, who pledged his house to Stanton as security for his legal fee. Stanton got him acquitted and kept the house when the client couldn't pay cash.
"You shouldn't take my house," the client told him. "I earned it," said Stanton. "Because you were guilty."
A jury has considered the question and cannot decide it, so the trial, in which the facts are not disputed, is nullified. If a jury can't decide the verdict, in a case where the facts are undisputed, then the option shouldn't be on the verdict menu.
You’re saying an option which describes reality some of the time — no matter how seldom — should not be a conclusion a jury can reach. That’s peculiar, let’s say. The very function of a jury is to decide what happened. In other words, what is reality in the particular case they are considering.
Even if only 2% of homicides were by insane people, the fact is insanity exists. The idea that a jury should not be able to identify that as an option, well, I’m tempted to joke that it’s insane.
Also, nullified is not the word. This is not jury nullification. This is a mistrial. The prescribed remedy is a retrial.
I was so relieved a mistrial was declared. God bless the holdout - I presume it was a he and I presume he refused to find her NGBROI. I have read that her husband called to ask about a prescription after she'd murdered Dawson but before she murdered the other two - and that she answered the phone, and calmly answered his question - then went to finish the job. If that ability to fake it doesn't show planning and follow-through as opposed to mindless blackout, I don't know what would. Why didn't she tell her husband "come home right now before I murder our two surviving babies?" Because she wanted to FINISH THE JOB. God bless that hold out juror.
And only one person on that jury had the moral clarity and courage to stand up for what's right. Hero. But his identity will be learned and the libs will hound him. Just watch.
I mean we should wait to make sure it wasn't a crazy woman (you KNOW it would be a woman - I say that as a woman) who refused to convict - but if they set up a Go Fund Me or something similar so he could enjoy a nice long vacation, I'd contribute for sure. I'll never be able to buy him a drink and, again, assuming he was the holdout who refused to let her get away with it - I would like to do something in appreciation. Kind of the anti-million-dollar-fund-for-the-murderess.
Oh my gosh are you all seeing the female foreperson tried to bully him into changing his position by telling him "you'll never get laid in this town again!"? LOL. We ALL know without seeing a photo of her that she's a behemoth and we also know the "good uns" will be lining up to date this lion.
Wait, what? Where did you see this? That's unbel...no, I guess it isn't.
Yes, and if they harass him, they go to jail. Am waiting to see THEIR faces.
Obviously that's not true anymore.
As it was, the defense lawyer told the judge that he was in contempt of court, and so did the jury foreperson.
Ah, I'm a lib and I'm not with them. just saying, dave.
You make think you are a liberal, but you may actually not be as far left as you think. If you have common sense, you are not a liberal.
Same here.
Why bring up libs. It's so fucking stupid. So libs agree mom's can kill kids. You're an idiot.
He refused to follow basic directions.
That's not morality. You can't convict people based on vibes. That's a very masculine way to look at the world--emotionally.
It’s insane that only one person on the jury could see through the satanic circus. But with millions and millions of babies killed every year by my body my choice it’s not at all far fetched.
You know it just shows we should always step up whether anybody else does or not. I'll never forget driving to Vegas one time and there was a car by the side of the road with the hood up and smoke coming out and a very distressed family standing beside the side of the road so of course I called 911 and the dispatcher said "thank you for calling - first one we've gotten" AND TRAFFIC WAS BUMPER TO BUMPER. What kind of monster DOESN'T call when there's smoke?
I had a similar experience driving from Vegas to LA: Traffic started jamming up, eventually revealing that the source was an old man walking on the side of the road with his small dog and what looked like a newspaper in a plastic cover. It was about 15-mintues before dark. The desert was empty miles up to that point, so I thought he was headed somewhere right up the road. But a couple of miles later: nothing, just desert. I called 911. He must have had altzheimers, went out of his home, and had been walking for probably hours. Dispatch called back, unable to locate him and then the police finally spotted him. I mentioned at some point that other people calling could help locate him. She said I was the only one who called.
A long line of cars had slowed to wonder why an old man and his dog were in the middle of nowhere, in the desert, and right befire dark, but not ONE of them called.
America has changed dramatically. And for the worse. Shame on everyone who gawked, wondered, and then drove on.
Oh my God. Bless you, sister. I am so glad you called. The few the proud I guess. As long as there's at least one of us around to keep an eye on the vulnerable.
I too called once when I saw a woman walking along the side of the freeway - which in a quarter to a half a mile would become an exit lane - with a very difficult ability to navigate. It was in the heat of the day and a completely unsafe place for a person to be. I called the police to let them know and they spent a great deal of time trying to zero in on her location, which indicated to me they had not received any prior calls about it. :(
I wonder if they were just tired of being there and enough of them got bullied into changing their minds.
I'll bet you a nickel it wasn't 11 to 1 initially. I'll bet at least a few were "convinced" to change their minds "to be merciful and wrap things up." OOOPS. Should I knot have used that metaphor? Shame on anyone who changed his/her initial vote (because the other two guys were ready to let her walk) having initially concluded she knew exactly what she was doing. And doing. And doing once again.
And heaven forbid it interrupt a long holiday weekend. I told my husband this wouldn’t go past Friday…
I don't think any of you understand how laws and criminal trials work here.
Just like OJ, Just like we can’t evict folks sell drugs and sex from our rental properties right beside the elementary school, just like picking lunatic liberal woman as jurors. No, I completely lost. Please explain?????
All those people in support of Lindsay
What the fuck is wrong with y’all
3 kids strangled
yet people feel sorry for the murdering mother
I don’t get it
Nobody is approving what she did.
You aren't listening to a thing they're saying.
I’m having a hard time why people support these murders.
That's because you aren't listening to a word anyone is saying
I don't feel sorry for her. I don't buy the postpartum excuse either. The clinic for postpartum she went to said that wasn't her problem - that her problem was "overmedication" and get off the damn drugs.
I don't feel sorry for her, I feel for the loss of the kids. And I don't want more kids to die, which they will if people don't pay attention to the fact that these psychoactive drugs cause these issues. There have been reports of women on these drugs "waking up" in a closet with a kitchen knife aimed at their kids heart for 20+ years. Those anecdotal reports are what pointed me to looking at them for the mass shooters. Now it's well documented that 65% of the mass shooters we've had can be shown to be on one of these drugs... the other 35% were not "not on them", they just are "unknown/not proven" to have been on them. But I bet most were. The shooting era started with one of the first patients on valium talking about hearing voices compelling him to climb to the top of the bell tower at UT and shoot people - just like Lindsay and so many others on these drugs have heard those voices. The shooting era amped up with greater prescriptions of these drugs in the USA. After that, the drugs all started to get warning labels for the number of reports of rare suicidal and homicidal ideation side effects. The shootings expanded to Europe along with SSRI prescriptions growing there, on a delay from the USA. At this point both Canada, the EU, and the Commonwealth countries as a whole are on a par with mass shooting fatality rates with the US. All of them have extensive SSRI and similar prescribing now.
The point is if we don't solve this, more kids will keep dying. I'm not saying don't use the drugs - they are probably quite a net benefit. I am saying recognize the risks - and damn well don't let nurse practicioners switch new mom's prescriptions back and forth three times over the phone while never seeing them in person. Jayzus.
Drugs Clancy was switched on and off of in the final two months before the killings, along with their FDA warnings (which evolved over time, the early ones didn't have them until low-frequency signals emerged from population level use not clinical trials):
Zoloft (sertraline)SSRI antidepressantYesSuicidal ideation — YES
Aggressive/violent reactions — YES
Ativan (lorazepam)BenzodiazepineYesSuicidal ideation — YES
Aggressive/violent reactions — YES
TrazodoneSerotonin modulator antidepressantYesSuicidal ideation — YES
Prozac (fluoxetine)SSRI antidepressantYesSuicidal ideation — YES
Aggressive/violent reactions — YES
Ambien (zolpidem)Non-benzodiazepine hypnotic (Z-drug)YesSuicidal ideation — YES
Aggressive/violent reactions — YES
Remeron (mirtazapine)Tetracyclic antidepressant (NaSSA)YesSuicidal ideation — YES
Aggressive/violent reactions — YES
Klonopin (clonazepam)Benzodiazepine / antiepilepticYesSuicidal ideation — YES
Aggressive/violent reactions — YES
Seroquel (quetiapine)Atypical antipsychoticYesSuicidal ideation — YES
Lamictal (lamotrigine)Antiepileptic / mood stabilizerYesSuicidal ideation — YES
Aggressive/violent reactions — YES
AmitriptylineTricyclic antidepressantYesSuicidal ideation — YES
Unless you are a medical prescriber it’s best not to comment about psychoactive drugs.
I invent drugs for a living. Most medical prescribers don't know shit about such drugs, would have to do more work than me to safely prescribe them.
Kid killer end off
Thank you, Sasha, you eloquently described all the things that I was feeling. The defense attorney was despicable on how he was attacking this who was standing firm on his conviction. I am glad Massachusetts Supreme Court denied the stay so the judge could then call him his trial. The prosecution needs to do a better job of presenting all the information that can convict her.
I agree - and they need to do a better job picking jurors who are smart enough to understand the law and apply it to the facts - and next time, sequester them. Sounds like her shyster hopes to convince the state not to pursue a new trial.
They should not have had nine women. They need to think about for the next trial
Yes, I agree with you and I was surprised that this trial the jury was not sequestered. I don’t think that the juror himself was not complying to the law. I think what he was saying is yes I know that there can be a room of doubt, but I don’t agree with reasonable doubt, I’m standing firm.
Sadly, they picked the exact kind of jury they wanted. Either innocent or a hung jury. That’s why they get the big money.
Saw an interview with the jury foreperson. She said she had been looking forward to giving her a not guilty verdict. Someone lied under oath about whether she could be objective.
It's absolutely appalling.
It is odd how none of you address the 13 different medications she was on from 30 different prescriptions, that Patrick joined a medical malpractice suit against the providers, and her entire family supported her and even Patrick said his marriage was great and he forgave her.
That's an odd thing to do for someone who just randomly decided to be mean to her kids one day after a law-abiding life, during which she repeatedly asked for help.
Just a reminder, Lindsey wasn’t just mean to her children, she methodically killed them. They will never have another breath of life. The medical profession may have let her down with the medication‘s. Whether or not she was on all those at the same time is unclear but that isn’t an excuse to let her off for what she did to her children.
If they caused her a lack of criminal responsibility, under Massachusetts law that's exactly what that does. It means she's not criminally liable.
It appears a lot of people here have been whipped up by a social media frenzy, and you're getting carried away because you think people are saying what she did was defensible or not wrong.
Those aren't the questions here. It's a tragedy what happened, but nobody disputed she killed her kids. The question is criminal responsibility. Getting angry and throwing laws out the window won't work here.
The medical profession may have let her down? It wasn't just that--it is the reason for what she did. That's precisely the reason--not excuse. Those medications are unbelievably strong, and that's what her defense generally proved. The one juror who didn't join the other 11 just didn't follow instructions because under the law she should be found not guilty.
Getting worked up doesn't change that.
She was a NURSE. She knew about drugs and their effects. I don’t think she WAS on multiple drugs—a perfect alibi.
I can understand her having postpartum depression, and being on various medication’s at different times but those children were murdered so methodically. Also, as a nurse, she knew exactly what she would need to do if she really wanted to commit suicide. She wouldn’t have needed to google where the carotid artery is. Her Attorney is being so despicable to the one juror who was a hold out because he didn’t vote his way. I pray that the judge cause this attorney out and he definitely should have some level of sanction the way he is attacking a juror.
The prosecution did a fairly good job of revealing that Lindsey was not taking most of the medication she was prescribed during the husband’s testimony. Various medical providers kept trying different medications because “nothing was working.” It’s not unusual for people to not want to take something, but this woman was really in trouble and a full trial of medication could have made the difference.
Let the copycats begin!!!
There is a copycat already , Corie Walsh strangled her 2 year old son , she was in a group chat about Lindsay Clancy
U can guess the rest
I've read about more. No real verification tho. I'm looking for arrests b4 I believe anything.
I wonder why nobody talks about the males who commit family annihilator cases repeatedly...
Because they get convicted poste haste! There is no sympathy for them. This Clancy thing will be the death of over feminization.
Because no one has sympathy for them or excuses their crimes. Men who kill their families are convicted and go to prison. No gaggle of supportive men protest outside the courtroom in support of the murderer.
I've already explained this.
You aren't even paying attention to the protesters. They aren't claiming what she did was great or even excusable. They are protesting for better support for mothers like her from the medical system, which even Patrick Clancy supports.
You've invented a straw man in your head and you're arguing against that.
If committing these murders is what makes someone unstable, then men should be declared unstable and removed from power as a sex class. Because that's what they've demonstrated.
Yes. To the juror who refused to settle. You should be proud of yourself. You didn’t let the pressure get to you. Thank you for holding your own. She’s guilty. It’s a sad situation; but she knew right from wrong! 😢🙏🏻
Kats trying to defend a child killer , are you related to the killer ?
Aside from all of this speculation, what did she mean by saying that her children were now “safe.”
Every shooter who did the shootings on the same drugs wasn't blacked out. Why would she be?
You can punish her, I don't care. But you'll save a lot more kids by reckoning with the drugs and with letting nurse practitioners prescribe them after a phone call with the person.
Have you never known a person on SSRIs or similar who attempted suicide? They don't describe ever wanting to at other times in their lives. They don't describe blacking out. They describe lucid thoughts with something overriding them telling them they have to do this, that they experienced during a time of changing dose or going on a new drug.
Who was Lindsay's "buddy"? These drugs are often used on the buddy system because they are only safe with someone in your personal life tasked with monitoring your thinking when you're changing dose or switching drugs.
He refused to follow the instructions.
The law dictates that under Massachusetts law she lacks criminal responsibility.
At the next trial, that will most likely be the result because that what the law dictates.
She didn't tell her husband because she was listening to the voices in her head, because she was mentally ill, largely due to the multiple types of medications she was on.
And you think her family would just stay quiet after three children were murdered because of the civil case, which Patrick joined, just for that reason? Not because they truly loved Lindsay and knew she struggled with her mental problems? Is that why they showed up every single day to support her as well?
And I wonder why this article doesn't mention she was prescribed 13 different types of medication...
She answered the phone while she was strangling the children
Geez these women are showing their nuttiness.
Crazy, suicidal empathy
Check the criminal stats, crazy.
Men would be happier in coal mines.
How tf does that negate the lack of criminal responsibility? You think when someone has been affected that deeply by medication they can't do anything, walk, or talk, or answer phones?
You don't know much.
You keep posting the exact same comment and point over and over. It's your OPINION that he wouldn't follow the instructions. Until we know more facts about what went on in the jury room from him or other jurors, that's biased speculation. You say "the law dictates," but the prosecution presented credible evidence that she knew what she was doing. You just happen to disregard that evidence.
And many of us think the claim of "voices in her head" is utter bullshit. It is impossible to disprove that someone had "voices" in their head, which puts the prosecution in an impossible position.
You know what, Kat. I've got a voice in my head too. A very loud voice. And this is what it says: Lindsay Clancy is guilty as fuck.
It’s not my opinion.
That’s what the jury foreperson literally told the judge in court.
If he wanted to say she was guilty because the prosecution proved the case beyond a reasonable doubt, he could have. He didn’t for a reason.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/key-things-to-know-about-lindsay-clancys-case-after-judge-declares-mistrial
Thank you to the one juror who held out.
Once he's identified, his life will be hell.
My thought: they need to institute a "Juror Protection Program" like the Witness Protection Program.
I believe that the jury is supposed to be protected. None of what Reddington exposed in the court was ever to be exposed. I don’t know why the judge didn’t call him out on that.
I would bet the other 11 jurors did their best to make him miserable.
Of that, you can be sure.
Anyone who harasses a juror will be jailed.
Maybe not in Mass. Up to the ADA's and DA.
1,000% Sasha. Beautifully said, as always.
As much as she angers me, and her lawyer disgusts me, what worries me the most is the hoards of pink hatted women who feel Lindsay Clancy is innocent ... just because. Just because she's a woman who was stressed. Just because society doesn't do enough to support women in every single aspect of their lives. Just because it's the pharmacists fault, or the doctors fault, or society's fault.
Too many women in this country have become mentally damaged, and frankly insane. There is no reasoning with these people. Their entire life is driven by non-stop grievance, and they are owed (in their warped minds) our sympathy, our empathy and most of all our bended-knee subservience to all that they do and all that they believe.
I'm not sure how long our society can survive with a population (30%? 40%? More%?) of women who believe society owes them everything they want and demand.
They sicken me.
I agree and I’m appalled at how many videos they’re showing on TikTok of mom’s holding their babies and splashing water on them and making them cry and thinking that’s OK. If they’re willing to openly do that what else would they do that child. They’re sick women
Or the videos of mothers cracking eggs on their children’s foreheads to see their reactions Or the videos of mothers pretending to harm their babies by using dolls, like throwing them in the dryer, etc. None of this is funny, not one damn bit!
They are sick women and should be investigated!
I hope we don’t see an uptick of psycho women killing their post born children in this country like the unborn
It's already upon us. The copycats are here!
Too late, it already started. A mother who was heavily “invested” in the Clancy trial murdered her child.
Saw that Sad sad news
Are you kidding me?
Unfortunately no.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/illinois-mother-charged-murder-killing-2-year-old-attempting-harm-rcna596197
Well she can't be innocent because she carried out the murders and didn't deny this. She can only be found innocent through a finding of insanity at the time of the act. But of course, one could argue, that anybody who commits a murder is insane.
💯 agree
The AWFULs' Pink Army wants to acquit Lindsay Clancy because each and every woman secretly longs to strangle other women's children who are better bred,, smarter, and more adorable than their own broods. It's a primal urge.
As a boomer who became a feminist when that was a thing in the 70's, I'm totally disgusted and saddened by how feminist behavior has gotten so warped. Because you want an equal chance to succeed, it doesn't mean you don't have any responsibility or accountability, like a woman who kills her children. Somehow, we must change this lunacy in our culture and focus on equality and not equity.
THANK YOU for saying this! I am so sick of reading about the "holdout!" You mean the one person who refuses to be sucked in by the groupthink? I've written about this whole circus several times this week (specifically the fangirls, or "clancies" as I call them), and the hypocrisy is staggering. In 2001, John Battaglia murdered his two daughters and plead insanity. He was convicted and executed. As you said, ANYONE who kills their child is insane. (My column today was "where's the GUILTY by reason of insanity" angle. How does I DID THE THING + I'M CRAZY = NOT GUILTY?!?!?!) Anyhow, thanks for this. :)
Also, the news clip sasha included in this piece stated that the jurors were upset because the holdout didn't abide by the reasonable doubt threshold. WhereTH does reasonable doubt apply when someone pled guilty!?
We will probably find out after the trial that the guy who refused to yield to the groupthink was pressured/bullied and probably lied about by the jury foreperson. The foreperson said that the “holdout” had doubt, but reading between the lines, you can tell whatever doubt he had did not rise to “reasonable doubt”. I can’t wait for that one brave juror to come out and tell us how wacko the other 11 were.
Here comes the book deals!!!
Read your column, Jenna, and it was excellent! Anyone not following Jenna should be!
How kind of you to say so!🩷😘
I never miss it!
I'm glad to see the support that the holdout has received - refusing to be sucked in by groupthink is a great way to put it. He stood up on principle rather than follow the exactitudes of the law.
But I've also seen people hate on the other jurors, which I think isn't good either. Because they were just trying to follow the law, and generally that's a good thing!
All the jurors were put in a difficult position because Massachusetts law PUT them in a difficult position. It's written in a way that basically guarantees people won't be satisfied - won't be able to deliver justice - for cases like these.
https://ramblingafter.substack.com/p/who-could-have-best-judged-lindsay
It's such a mess that you can even see the subtle mistake in Sasha's post, when she writes:
>> To be found “not criminally responsible,” Lindsay Clancy would have to show that she was not of sound mind at the time of the murders.
Technically not true! She just needed to show that there was a plausible chance of being not of sound mind. Which is a big difference. All thanks to MA law (not how many other states work!).
Yes GUILTY BY REASON OF INSANITY
These wacko “pink ladies” are the same people who marry death row inmates and think it’s OK to abort a million babies a year. Hell ain’t hot enough for them.
They are the ones who would define this as simply a "late-stage abortion." Disgusting.
And here come the cooycats!!!
the no kings girls
Whatever Clancy is, I’m with you in that it’s the reaction to her that is terrifying.
Like Mangione.
We are supposedly the fascists and yet it’s the left that seems quite content with killing any and all they disagree with.
Going to be open war soon if the psychosis doesn’t break.
Open War is on already,,,the normal people haven't admitted it yet. This is a moment, not a Pearl Harbor but definitely big..These women are cheering the massacre of a family by their own mother...Sick, Sick, Sick
In Communist countries this is normal....Upside down is right side up, North is south
2+2=5
Sad part is these people get to vote and their vote counts just as much as yours does.
So make sure on election day you fulfill the Chicago Promise by getting out there and voting early and often.
Screw the “reasons”.
SHE DID IT. She admitted it !!!
End of story…period, exclamation point. Do the crime, do the time.
I would have been the hold out! And what a lame way to kill yourself! She planned all of this with a clear mind. Sociopath scum. She will make lots of like minded friends in prison
What stuns me (in a bad way) is that people are willing to make the jump from NGBROI to “She’s a hero.” You would think the enormity of the act — triple homicide at a minimum — would at least forestall the possibility of holding this woman up for worship. But we live in depraved times.
Because society is very very sick today.
The left is now ready for mass murder and they smell blood in the water, all the communist countries are ready to pounce. Look at the world,,,, Canada is ,,,,dead- England dead -Europe on life support. The lefties here,, they think we the real Americans won't fight or that we will lose, so its all out war now.
If you think about it they have turned all these murders into social justice the pink ladies outside the courthouse don't even come close to admitting murder, that's their tell like in Poker, they want murder lots of it. They are not hiding there hate any longer just twisting it to hide it...Hero Luigi? Victim Lindsay? No both these people committed murder, they loved it just won't say it they lie and mask it with healthcare and bad doctors blah blah.h
So what is our move? To move these people out or fight them once n for all,,for them they want it listen to Hasan Piker and his followers,,the new candidate in Michigan,,everyday on the view,.. the late night talk shows,,read their papers,,,,, watch CNN,,,, MS Now..they want to be the small gang at the end of it all holding the treasure and take the whole country. They want all of us dead. The world is watching
See also Luigi.
See Manson, and his cult who killed for him.
I’m not sure I’m understanding you. Was Manson glorified the way Luigi has been?
Was for many years. He gained followers during his trial, incarceration.
Didn't know that you watched the whole trial. That makes this post very credible. This is, in fact, the issue, " The question is whether she knew what she was doing was wrong and whether she could have stopped herself, and the answer to both is an unequivocal yes."
The real problem here is that 11 MA jurors - who saw and heard the same evidence as you - and then thought the defendant didn't know right from wrong.
What appears to have happened in liberal MA is a form of jury nullification. That is to say, eleven jurors ignored the overwhelming facts and the law because they had empathy for this woman and are essentially okay with her murdering her children in cold blood. And cold blood it was. Planned and deliberately concluded.
A result like this would never happen in NE, but it could happen in MN. We saw a MN jury convict a cop because a drug user had a bad reaction to his recent drug use.
The identity of a defendant and the victim turns out to be real important and decisive in some states.
The liberal / conservative divide in this country is real and very serious. Trump is just one manifestation of it. This case is another.
She'd have received the death penalty here in Florida - it only takes 8 now
La Florida the blue print for saving the USA
So much for the jury system.
Her PO🐷💩 attorney is on telling lies. He is nearly as disgusting as she is. He thinks he won and he thinks he is smarter than everyone else. Typical
Libtard.
Kevin Reddington might think that the mistrial ends this stage of the Lindsay Clancy saga, but this comments disparaging the holdout juror outside of the courthouse after the mistrial might very well mean that the Court is not finished with him. Reddington's comments are likely sanctionable by the Court and seem intent upon intimidating the next jury on the retrial. Reddington could have disagreed with the holdout juror without ridiculing him and potentially exposing the holdout juror to threats from the crazy women and other nutjobs, if Reddington had felt it necessary to say something - which was entirety unnecessary and recalled for!
Reddington should be disbarred.
He's extolling her virtues ("a fantastic, wonderful individual, so brave...it's not right what she had to go through because she grieves the loss of those 3 children"). He will be praising her repeatedly in interviews in the weeks ahead. He has to get that embedded in the minds of the potential jurors before the retrial.
"...she grieves the loss..." The *loss*. I can't even.
Has she once said, “I’m sorry…I shouldn’t have killed my babies.”?
He’s a clown.
Assclown
Nope
She made hundreds of choices during and about her life, all which led her to this most dramatic one, and now she must live with the consequences.
The drunk driver who kills someone doesn’t get off because he was “under the influence”. Neither should she.
Murder is murder. And this one is particularly heinous. It’s not complicated.
Yours is a very good point, Sue.
I think our justice/jury system is teetering over an abyss. I watched Lindsay's lawyer claim that he won the case and that everyone seeking justice had been denied their rightful outcome by one juror. Think about it, OJ's jury giving the black power salute in the jury box. The courtroom hearing the case of Derek Chauvin while rocking with the chants of the bloodthirsty crowd outside howling for "their" justice. The crazed activists maneuvering for any chance to bring down Kyle Rittenhouse with a Kangaroo court. What juror wants to be that one juror holding the line against what they see as a rush to judgement? I was jury foreman in a criminal case where a fellow juror opined when starting deliberations that the defendant wouldn't have been charged if he weren't guilty! WTF! We are on the verge of using "vibes" to make all our weighty social determinations and I for one don't want to be around for that society. The Purge might be our new societal playbook. Damn!
Free Derek Chauvin.
yes lets look at allllllllllllll of the evidence again
As you correctly said Sasha, all murderers are to some extent insane. You have to be because the consequences if you are found out are pretty awful.
We have been down this "diminished capacity" excuse for murder before. Just look up, Dan White, Harvey Milk, and George Moscone and you will see what I mean. As, soon as some lefty politician or icon gets killed and the murderer gets let off for diminished capacity of some sort, the legislature will close that loophole in a nano second.
Yeah, this is shaades of "the twinkie defense" in the Milk/Moscone murders... Good call..
That one holdout is the only juror with common sense and courage
I've never liked the "insanity" defense. If a person dies at the hands of another, it is either 1st, 2nd, or 3rd degree murder, or death by some degree of negligence if there is no acquittal by self-defense or a charge of unintentional death by negligence is successfully defended. That's enough verdicts. There does not need to a separate one for presumed insanity.
You can be criminally charged and sent to prison for shooting a trespassing dog on your property. No insanity plea for killing a dog, so why should you get one for killing your babies?
I agree, its too much mystery magic and feelings,,,and the victim can never get fromtheir box and exclaim he's lying he said he waskilling me while he put the knife in.
There is never any morals anymore or personal responsibility
Thank you for bringing up the fact that there is no personal responsibility in society. 💯! How was this woman brought up? Also, when was the last time she or her husband stepped foot in a church? Just sayin!
I agree we should all be scared toward God and redemption in our own lives.
Doctors treat symptoms they don't live my life for me or inject a moral compass.
Especially the temporary insanity defense. This was invented by Congresscritter Dan Sickles to gain acquittal for murdering the son of Francis Scott Key (who was his wife's lover). He went on to disobey orders as a Corps commander at Gettysburg and get thousands killed and nearly lost the Civil War. Edwin Stanton, Secretary of War during most of the Lincoln administration was his defense lawyer.
I remember that story. Another one is that Stanton had a client on trial for murder, who pledged his house to Stanton as security for his legal fee. Stanton got him acquitted and kept the house when the client couldn't pay cash.
"You shouldn't take my house," the client told him. "I earned it," said Stanton. "Because you were guilty."
Attorneys never change.
Because insanity exists.
Whether it applies here I don’t know. OP’s argument is fairly convincing.
A jury has considered the question and cannot decide it, so the trial, in which the facts are not disputed, is nullified. If a jury can't decide the verdict, in a case where the facts are undisputed, then the option shouldn't be on the verdict menu.
You’re saying an option which describes reality some of the time — no matter how seldom — should not be a conclusion a jury can reach. That’s peculiar, let’s say. The very function of a jury is to decide what happened. In other words, what is reality in the particular case they are considering.
Even if only 2% of homicides were by insane people, the fact is insanity exists. The idea that a jury should not be able to identify that as an option, well, I’m tempted to joke that it’s insane.
Also, nullified is not the word. This is not jury nullification. This is a mistrial. The prescribed remedy is a retrial.
Further, the material facts are not in dispute. Who was killed, when, how, etc. What is in dispute is the defendant’s state of mind.
You said you couldn't identify it, and you saw the same evidence the jury did.