WWII in Europe and The Pacific two different wars. You could say 2 different attitudes toward the Enemy. Had one Bother-In-Law did a walking tour of North West Europe he said he never hated the Germans (SS were a different thing) Another was a SeaBee (Guadalcanal to Okinawa) HATED Loathed Despised all things Japanese.
I think the difference can be seen in Band Of Brothers and The Pacific.
I think the greater animosity toward Japan was likely a result of their attack on 7Dec1941 that made WWII a hot war for us and that they are a different race. Our propaganda machine made them appear as sub-human for years. They’re actually some of the nicest, most intelligent, hard working and kind people I’ve ever worked with. I went there for work and they can to my home over here too. Awesome people.
Fascinating date. Never heard of this before. Amazing too how archaic the typewriter print is compared to the sophistication of the history changing technology it describes.
The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the Second World War. Don't take my word for it: hear it from the lips of the one person capable of making that decision. Recorded in 2009.
As one whose parents lived under the Japanese occupation of China (🇹🇼) I’m well aware of the necessities of war. Hatred in warfare may be quite incidental. What is necessary is selfless commitment and obedience unto death if necessary. All war depends on it. Hatred was used as a means of motivation and focus to overcome any notion that the enemy might not be as different from us as we might like to believe. It leads to places I do not believe we should go under any understanding of Just War doctrine. It is a path that enslaves those who harbor hatred and it is to everyone’s detriment. It understandably happens in combat but it is not wise policy for an army of a democracy. My friends and acquiescences who were combatants in that war are nearly all gone now but one in particular stays in my thoughts. He was a Marine in the First Division (M/4/11) from the Midwest. First combat at Cape Gloucester afforded him an experience to harbor hatred for most of his remaining life. He tried to take prisoner the sole surviving soldier of a failed ambush and it cost the life of a fellow Marine. He never tried to take another prisoner again. It wasn’t the absence of hate that led to that tragedy. It was an absence of understanding that surrendering was anathema to the Japanese of that time and to mistaken intentions. The Marines had gotten to the point of having shared a cigarette with the soldier before another hasty Marine approached him with a drawn bayonet to “prod” him out of his spider hole. A grenade was thrown.
Experienced Marines rarely bothered to try to make prisoners of young men consigned to the fate of death for the Emperor-usually second sons-from the time of their birth. They expected to die, glorified it and regarded surrender as supremely shameful. One does not need hate to understand the necessity of obliging their expectations. It’s the ugly business of war not fought on a battlefield between Western nations; the rules and expectations were not the same.
My friend went on to fight at Peleliu where the Marines exterminated nearly the entire garrison of the first line IJA division partially responsible for the Rape of Nanking long after it was militarily necessary and at an enormous cost to the First Marine Division (MacArthur was not well liked or respected among Marines for good reason). The Marines watched film on the Rape of Nanking and considerable care was taken to dial back the racial hatred against Asians in general to help the Marines to learn how to distinguish the “evil” Japanese from the “good Asian” Allies in China and the Philippines depicted as “just like us” in War Department films. My friend remained physically unscathed until the last day of combat on his next landing on Okinawa. A sniper’s bullet passed through both legs and left him permanently disabled for further service. He was evacuated and returned home while his fellow Marines went on to liberate Beiping (Beijing today). They were welcomed as liberators by the people of my mother’s home town and lionized as heroes. They stood guard over the stranded Japanese garrison there safeguarding the Japanese soldiers against reprisal. The city however had strategic value and soon attracted the attention of the Communist PLA. Their attack necessitated the release of the Japanese soldiers who were given their weapons back albeit with limited ammunition so they could man a perimeter along with the Marines and their Allies in the Chinese Nationalist Army who weeks earlier were trying to kill each other. The new alliance formed on that perimeter held the line until 1949. The alignment of nations on that perimeter endures to this day. The Chinese Nationalist leader Chiang Kai-shek, a Methodist, forgave his former enemies of their war debts allowing a future between Taiwan and Japan to grow.
None in my family hold personal animus against the Japanese people. I am an admirer of their culture and ways. They were terribly misled by ambitious men who were willing to sacrifice their own people for their personal gain and for the perverted negative nationalism they espoused.
“War is the extension of politics by other means.” Von Clausewitz touches upon the nature and purpose of war considering the element of hatred or its absence in its creation as policy towards achieving a goal. No one is making the case for neocon warmongering here but merely exploring the nature of war and perhaps how it might be best prosecuted.
Hey Polemarchus, this is an excellent lesson in relevant history and I greatly appreciate you sharing it. You do yourself and Marine friend honor by sharing it so eloquently.
One of brothers is a Marine (once one, always one) and 3 others and myself served active duty in various other branches; I agree with your description of MaxArthur in WWII but add that apparently he was brilliant in Korea and Inchon in minimizing US and ROK casualties. He also was epic in recovering Japan to a Tier 1 country. I hope to see more comments from you because you write very well and accurately it seems to me. Thank-you.
Also many of the Americans who fought the Germans were themselves at least partly German. I’m quarter German. Another major factor was that unlike the Russians who saw first hand the atrocities committed by the Germans right from the start, most of the Americans didn’t become aware of that till the end of the war when the concentration camps were found.
Curious; maybe not: Had reason to ask my 40ish daughter what she learned about the holocaust in school. Not a whole lot, though not (yet) completely whitewashed . Her Big One? When she learned whilst college age about her great uncle having been killed on a WWII Japanese "hell ship." And her subsequent research. A previous poster notwithstanding, the Japanese were far more equal opportunity evil-doers. Mass delusion explains a lot.
I'm 72. When I was a kid, every man I knew had served in World War II. With no exceptions, no one who had fought the Germans hated them. Without exception, everyone who had fought the Japanese hated them.
I remember a man in 1985 who shuddered, and used the term, "savages," to describe them.
They are only one side of the same coin minted for profit and control. They have their opposite numbers in the Republican Party beholden to the same oligarchy.
I intensely hate the democrats. From the time I get up till the time I go to bed I just feel intensely burning hate for them. That’s not the only thing I feel but certainly a big chunk of it since I see things online all day that stokes the flames. I think hate has an unjustifiably bad name. It’s like the intensely burning fire in a furnace that heats a home and is only a problem if it gets out and burns down the house. Plus just consider all the damage done by “goodness.” Many people believe they’re being good by supporting the left’s open borders but it’s true that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. No borders means no country. No country is the road to hell. For sure. Big time for sure.
an open border next to a nation beyond its carrying capacity and in overshoot - and whose population is still growing - means that your country will be soon beyond its carrying capacity and in overshoot, too - and there will be consequences: "Carrying Capacity: Carrying capacity is a well-known ecological term that has an obvious and fairly intuitive meaning: “the maximum population size of a species that the environment can sustain indefinitely, given the food, habitat, water and other necessities available in the environment”. Unfortunately, that definition becomes more nebulous the closer you look at it – especially when we start talking about the planetary carrying capacity for humans. Ecologists claim that our numbers have already surpassed the carrying capacity of the planet, while others (notably economists and politicians…) claim we are nowhere near it yet!
Overshoot: When a population surpasses its carrying capacity it enters a condition known as overshoot. Because carrying capacity is defined as the maximum population that an environment can maintain indefinitely, overshoot must by definition be temporary. Populations always decline to (or below) the carrying capacity. How long they stay in overshoot depends on how many stored resources there are to support their inflated numbers. Resources may be food, but they may also be any resource that helps maintain their numbers. For humans one of the primary resources is energy, whether it is tapped as flows (sunlight, wind, biomass) or stocks (coal, oil, gas, uranium etc.). A species usually enters overshoot when it taps a particularly rich but exhaustible stock of a resource. Like oil, for instance…" https://peakoilbarrel.com/carrying-capacity-overshoot-and-species-extinction/
Saw this today, had to share here: “If I were to speak with eloquence in earth’s many languages, and in the heavenly tongues of angels, yet I didn’t express myself with love, my words would be reduced to the hollow sound of nothing more than a clanging cymbal.”
Have fun in Telluride, Sasha, hope there are at least a couple of movies that are worthwhile. Know that all the bad vibes pointed your way are a barometer of your effectiveness... I have to wonder if a few of the tinseltown types might surprise you with furtive expressions of affection for saying things that they are afraid to say themselves.
Don't underestimate the power you have by showing up, being positive, and just being you. Their hatred is simply reflecting their fear. Like everyone else here said just bring love.
I wish that for just one time you could stand inside my shoes….you’d know what a drag it is to see you…. Positively 4th Street….perfect song for the occasion….thanks for sharing Libertarian.
Matthew 10:16 is one of the wisest verses in the Bible: “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves."
Oh, how I wish I lived close enough to attend with you. I am so very practiced and really, really good at mean girl games. However, just remember that happiness is the thing they hate most. If you are happy, you're already doing better than they are. Remember that.
I hope the hate is mitigated by the kindnesses you desire. May you trust God to show his love for you among the probably small number of believers attending this event.
Here’s an excellent assessment of the DNC on RCP from the New York Post. Kamala is constantly criticized for refusing to talk about what her administration would do if she is president but in fact they laid it all out at their DNC. Their top priority will be to further weaponize all federal agencies against Trump/MAGA which they see as the world’s greatest threat to democracy in America. This how they see the world. This is their obsession. They are fanatics. They will not change. I recommend sharing this with others and saving it for future reference as a reminder of who these people are and how they see us.
“All icing and no cake.”
That’s the only way to describe the Democratic National Convention that mercifully ended Thursday night with Kamala Harris’s acceptance speech as the party’s improbable nominee.
The icing, of course, was all the joy shoved down America’s collective throats from Chicago, a city where more than two dozen have been shot since the convention began, all without a care in the world about the state of the country.
On Night Three alone, the word “joy” was said 30 times by various speakers.
But that wasn’t close to the word uttered most from podium.
Instead, the gold medal goes to a name: Trump.
“Why Democrats convention set them up to lose in November.”
Real Clear Politics. New York Post by Joe Concha. Aug 27, 2024
Hate has so little to offer and is spiritually deadening. Return it with agape.
Something I recall reading Yeas Ago "Hating is like burning your house down to get rid of a mouse,"
Would the American army in WW2 been a more effective fighting force if they had loved the Germans and Japanese rather than hating them? Obviously not.
WWII in Europe and The Pacific two different wars. You could say 2 different attitudes toward the Enemy. Had one Bother-In-Law did a walking tour of North West Europe he said he never hated the Germans (SS were a different thing) Another was a SeaBee (Guadalcanal to Okinawa) HATED Loathed Despised all things Japanese.
I think the difference can be seen in Band Of Brothers and The Pacific.
I think the greater animosity toward Japan was likely a result of their attack on 7Dec1941 that made WWII a hot war for us and that they are a different race. Our propaganda machine made them appear as sub-human for years. They’re actually some of the nicest, most intelligent, hard working and kind people I’ve ever worked with. I went there for work and they can to my home over here too. Awesome people.
That and they didn't surrender. I've read of the 20,000 on Peleliu 200 were captured alive. Japan in 1944 and Japan in 2024 2 different countries.
Thing is in the late 19th century Japan took The Worst of European Imperialism as their model. In 1945 they took The Best Of America as their model.
You can criticize Douglas MacArthur on many things (he was a Man good & bad) But Not on what he did in Japan.
Don't know about the race thing. The A-bomb was intended for use on the Germans but they inconveniently surrendered before it was completed.
This was the impetus. Note the date of the letter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein%E2%80%93Szilard_letter#/media/File:Einstein-Roosevelt-letter.png
Fascinating date. Never heard of this before. Amazing too how archaic the typewriter print is compared to the sophistication of the history changing technology it describes.
Bill Whittle The True Story of the Atomic Bombs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fbDgAQA22s
Aug 6, 2023
The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the Second World War. Don't take my word for it: hear it from the lips of the one person capable of making that decision. Recorded in 2009.
As one whose parents lived under the Japanese occupation of China (🇹🇼) I’m well aware of the necessities of war. Hatred in warfare may be quite incidental. What is necessary is selfless commitment and obedience unto death if necessary. All war depends on it. Hatred was used as a means of motivation and focus to overcome any notion that the enemy might not be as different from us as we might like to believe. It leads to places I do not believe we should go under any understanding of Just War doctrine. It is a path that enslaves those who harbor hatred and it is to everyone’s detriment. It understandably happens in combat but it is not wise policy for an army of a democracy. My friends and acquiescences who were combatants in that war are nearly all gone now but one in particular stays in my thoughts. He was a Marine in the First Division (M/4/11) from the Midwest. First combat at Cape Gloucester afforded him an experience to harbor hatred for most of his remaining life. He tried to take prisoner the sole surviving soldier of a failed ambush and it cost the life of a fellow Marine. He never tried to take another prisoner again. It wasn’t the absence of hate that led to that tragedy. It was an absence of understanding that surrendering was anathema to the Japanese of that time and to mistaken intentions. The Marines had gotten to the point of having shared a cigarette with the soldier before another hasty Marine approached him with a drawn bayonet to “prod” him out of his spider hole. A grenade was thrown.
Experienced Marines rarely bothered to try to make prisoners of young men consigned to the fate of death for the Emperor-usually second sons-from the time of their birth. They expected to die, glorified it and regarded surrender as supremely shameful. One does not need hate to understand the necessity of obliging their expectations. It’s the ugly business of war not fought on a battlefield between Western nations; the rules and expectations were not the same.
My friend went on to fight at Peleliu where the Marines exterminated nearly the entire garrison of the first line IJA division partially responsible for the Rape of Nanking long after it was militarily necessary and at an enormous cost to the First Marine Division (MacArthur was not well liked or respected among Marines for good reason). The Marines watched film on the Rape of Nanking and considerable care was taken to dial back the racial hatred against Asians in general to help the Marines to learn how to distinguish the “evil” Japanese from the “good Asian” Allies in China and the Philippines depicted as “just like us” in War Department films. My friend remained physically unscathed until the last day of combat on his next landing on Okinawa. A sniper’s bullet passed through both legs and left him permanently disabled for further service. He was evacuated and returned home while his fellow Marines went on to liberate Beiping (Beijing today). They were welcomed as liberators by the people of my mother’s home town and lionized as heroes. They stood guard over the stranded Japanese garrison there safeguarding the Japanese soldiers against reprisal. The city however had strategic value and soon attracted the attention of the Communist PLA. Their attack necessitated the release of the Japanese soldiers who were given their weapons back albeit with limited ammunition so they could man a perimeter along with the Marines and their Allies in the Chinese Nationalist Army who weeks earlier were trying to kill each other. The new alliance formed on that perimeter held the line until 1949. The alignment of nations on that perimeter endures to this day. The Chinese Nationalist leader Chiang Kai-shek, a Methodist, forgave his former enemies of their war debts allowing a future between Taiwan and Japan to grow.
None in my family hold personal animus against the Japanese people. I am an admirer of their culture and ways. They were terribly misled by ambitious men who were willing to sacrifice their own people for their personal gain and for the perverted negative nationalism they espoused.
“War is the extension of politics by other means.” Von Clausewitz touches upon the nature and purpose of war considering the element of hatred or its absence in its creation as policy towards achieving a goal. No one is making the case for neocon warmongering here but merely exploring the nature of war and perhaps how it might be best prosecuted.
https://oll.libertyfund.org/pages/clausewitz-war-as-politics-by-other-means
Hey Polemarchus, this is an excellent lesson in relevant history and I greatly appreciate you sharing it. You do yourself and Marine friend honor by sharing it so eloquently.
One of brothers is a Marine (once one, always one) and 3 others and myself served active duty in various other branches; I agree with your description of MaxArthur in WWII but add that apparently he was brilliant in Korea and Inchon in minimizing US and ROK casualties. He also was epic in recovering Japan to a Tier 1 country. I hope to see more comments from you because you write very well and accurately it seems to me. Thank-you.
Also many of the Americans who fought the Germans were themselves at least partly German. I’m quarter German. Another major factor was that unlike the Russians who saw first hand the atrocities committed by the Germans right from the start, most of the Americans didn’t become aware of that till the end of the war when the concentration camps were found.
There were two General Walter Kruegers in WW2. One German, One American.
Curious; maybe not: Had reason to ask my 40ish daughter what she learned about the holocaust in school. Not a whole lot, though not (yet) completely whitewashed . Her Big One? When she learned whilst college age about her great uncle having been killed on a WWII Japanese "hell ship." And her subsequent research. A previous poster notwithstanding, the Japanese were far more equal opportunity evil-doers. Mass delusion explains a lot.
I'm 72. When I was a kid, every man I knew had served in World War II. With no exceptions, no one who had fought the Germans hated them. Without exception, everyone who had fought the Japanese hated them.
I remember a man in 1985 who shuddered, and used the term, "savages," to describe them.
The Democrat party is the nation’s #1 hate group. They’re willing to burn down the entire Republic in an attempt to take out the object of their hate.
They are only one side of the same coin minted for profit and control. They have their opposite numbers in the Republican Party beholden to the same oligarchy.
Certainly since Jan. 20 2009. Before that you could see it coming.
Is “yeas ago” your Brooklyn accent manifesting itself in spelling?
I ar a mor goodeist spelier
The spel cheker cud bee eur frend!
LOL!
Actually I need to clean the keyboard.
I intensely hate the democrats. From the time I get up till the time I go to bed I just feel intensely burning hate for them. That’s not the only thing I feel but certainly a big chunk of it since I see things online all day that stokes the flames. I think hate has an unjustifiably bad name. It’s like the intensely burning fire in a furnace that heats a home and is only a problem if it gets out and burns down the house. Plus just consider all the damage done by “goodness.” Many people believe they’re being good by supporting the left’s open borders but it’s true that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. No borders means no country. No country is the road to hell. For sure. Big time for sure.
Alright Seva, bringing the love for the hate... kind of counterintuitive, but I think it works...
I don't hate them. I just want them in a different country than me. Who I hate are the Republican Quislings.
an open border next to a nation beyond its carrying capacity and in overshoot - and whose population is still growing - means that your country will be soon beyond its carrying capacity and in overshoot, too - and there will be consequences: "Carrying Capacity: Carrying capacity is a well-known ecological term that has an obvious and fairly intuitive meaning: “the maximum population size of a species that the environment can sustain indefinitely, given the food, habitat, water and other necessities available in the environment”. Unfortunately, that definition becomes more nebulous the closer you look at it – especially when we start talking about the planetary carrying capacity for humans. Ecologists claim that our numbers have already surpassed the carrying capacity of the planet, while others (notably economists and politicians…) claim we are nowhere near it yet!
Overshoot: When a population surpasses its carrying capacity it enters a condition known as overshoot. Because carrying capacity is defined as the maximum population that an environment can maintain indefinitely, overshoot must by definition be temporary. Populations always decline to (or below) the carrying capacity. How long they stay in overshoot depends on how many stored resources there are to support their inflated numbers. Resources may be food, but they may also be any resource that helps maintain their numbers. For humans one of the primary resources is energy, whether it is tapped as flows (sunlight, wind, biomass) or stocks (coal, oil, gas, uranium etc.). A species usually enters overshoot when it taps a particularly rich but exhaustible stock of a resource. Like oil, for instance…" https://peakoilbarrel.com/carrying-capacity-overshoot-and-species-extinction/
Overshoot is not sustainable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZA9Hnp3aV4 so there's no sustainability with open borders.
Well you are a Marine … lol.
Saw this today, had to share here: “If I were to speak with eloquence in earth’s many languages, and in the heavenly tongues of angels, yet I didn’t express myself with love, my words would be reduced to the hollow sound of nothing more than a clanging cymbal.”
1 Corinthians 13:1 TPT
https://bible.com/bible/1849/1co.13.1.TPT
Vedic Love Song: Ancient Sanskrit love song. Very nice chant. Strange and beautiful. Love as described in the Atharva Veda 6.8
“Embrace me completely
just as a creeper completely embraces a tree
May you be the one loving me only, not another
may you not go away from me
with my mind I attract you
just as a bird on the ground beats its wings to go up
May you be the one loving me only, not another
may you not go away from me
I go around your mind
just as the sun goes around heaven and earth
May you be the one loving me only, not another
may you not go away from me.”
Commissioned by Paramjeet to honor his engagement and
wedding to Gurpreet.
Gaiea Sanskrit. (5 min)
Aug 2020
https://youtu.be/KTxM_kvhhJk
Beautiful 🌅
As always you courage is admirable. Try not to let the crazy get you down
Have fun in Telluride, Sasha, hope there are at least a couple of movies that are worthwhile. Know that all the bad vibes pointed your way are a barometer of your effectiveness... I have to wonder if a few of the tinseltown types might surprise you with furtive expressions of affection for saying things that they are afraid to say themselves.
Girl, you are a hero. Bask in it.
Don't underestimate the power you have by showing up, being positive, and just being you. Their hatred is simply reflecting their fear. Like everyone else here said just bring love.
Thumbs up but really can’t fully agree; not sure bringing love to a hypocrites party is any smarter than bringing a knife to a gun fight.
I think I’d bring Mr Smug and Mrs FU2.
“Like everyone else here said just bring love.”
That’s not what I said.
lol. Not what I said either!
Kill them with kindness.
God bless you and safe travels, Sasha. My the wind be at your back and sun shine on your face. You are seriously a good woman. as Dylan might say, “
I know the reason, that you talked behind my back
I used to be among the crowd you're in with
Do you take me for such a fool, to think I'd make contact
With the one who tries to hide what he don't know to begin with?”
I wish that for just one time you could stand inside my shoes….you’d know what a drag it is to see you…. Positively 4th Street….perfect song for the occasion….thanks for sharing Libertarian.
Sing it, sister!
Good luck and keep your chin up!
“You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life” Winston Churchill
Continue to stand up and expose the ignorant little haters. God speed.
Matthew 10:16 is one of the wisest verses in the Bible: “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves."
Your worth is often defined by your enemies.
Very witty, dick 😂
Oh, how I wish I lived close enough to attend with you. I am so very practiced and really, really good at mean girl games. However, just remember that happiness is the thing they hate most. If you are happy, you're already doing better than they are. Remember that.
I hope the hate is mitigated by the kindnesses you desire. May you trust God to show his love for you among the probably small number of believers attending this event.
You can hold your head high Sasha. You're in the elite group with integrity. At a time when Hollywood has precious little of it.
Brave lady. Might be a shark too. Mama bears are like that.
Love you girl, you are an inspiration.
Sorrow and anguish reside in all our misguided detractors, whom we must only pity.
Stay strong, enjoy and never diminish.
Here’s an excellent assessment of the DNC on RCP from the New York Post. Kamala is constantly criticized for refusing to talk about what her administration would do if she is president but in fact they laid it all out at their DNC. Their top priority will be to further weaponize all federal agencies against Trump/MAGA which they see as the world’s greatest threat to democracy in America. This how they see the world. This is their obsession. They are fanatics. They will not change. I recommend sharing this with others and saving it for future reference as a reminder of who these people are and how they see us.
“All icing and no cake.”
That’s the only way to describe the Democratic National Convention that mercifully ended Thursday night with Kamala Harris’s acceptance speech as the party’s improbable nominee.
The icing, of course, was all the joy shoved down America’s collective throats from Chicago, a city where more than two dozen have been shot since the convention began, all without a care in the world about the state of the country.
On Night Three alone, the word “joy” was said 30 times by various speakers.
But that wasn’t close to the word uttered most from podium.
Instead, the gold medal goes to a name: Trump.
“Why Democrats convention set them up to lose in November.”
Real Clear Politics. New York Post by Joe Concha. Aug 27, 2024
https://nypost.com/2024/08/23/opinion/why-democrats-convention-set-them-up-to-lose-in-november/
Well said!!
Brother, we have lived in crazy times.
Actually, they're still kinda (yeah, more than kinda) crazy.
The 70's were a LOT worse.
Good luck and Godspeed ❤️